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User talk:Nubescout
Welcome Hi, welcome to YuYu Hakusho Wiki! Thanks for your edit to the King Enma page. Please leave a message on my talk page if I can help with anything! -- Reikson (Talk) 10:47, September 11, 2010 thanks for the clarification. Thank You I appreciate your effort congratulating me :). Your contributions are good, I suggest you should keep it up so one day I may recommend you to the Bureaucrats here. I am just an ordinary admin, so I can't promote other users to admin status. Don't mean to complain But when you're editing the list, can you make sure the spacing doesn't change? You've doubled it, from what it was before. Like, notice S class, versus B/C. If you don't wanna fix it though, I can, eventually, because I don't mind having more edits, but just a heads up. Sorry, it's just with all that extra stuff added to decrease the spacing, there is so much to go through when scrolling down. What were those changes for? Which ones, the spacing? The code to cause less spacing simply seemed too big when editing the article. Frankly, i didn't even know what it was for at first. You made the spacing bigger, which messes up the article, but you also changed many spots, without any reason. As i already said, i didn't initially know that it effected the spacing. As for the slight changing in the tier lists, if there was any changes i have made you have queries on then I'd inform you why i made the changes. ..I'm not just talking about the spacing. Why did you make those changes to the characters at all? Well with a few of them, they logically had to be placed higher or lower than they previously were. If you can't explain why you did it, it's not evident logic. If you don't point out a few examples of my edits on the tier list, then i can't really argue, as i did too many changes to remember them all automatically. You can see them all, with the view revision button, where youe edited. I looked at the changes I'd made to the tier list, so I'll explain them. I decided to place Rando at C- instead of at C-* as his youki-gun was still inferior to Yusuke's rei-gun during their fight. Considering that, him being more than a D* without the youki-gun is pushing it. I placed Topaz at C* due to the whole filler scene of Toguro being impressed at his you-ki, but after rereading the manga i saw how weak he was and replaced him next to the rest of the Spirit warriors. I decided that Gama should be placed at C-* rather than just C- due to being placed with strength of "good enough" in comparision to Toya's "good standard" and Bakken being "null" in a small panel on chapter 70. I did the same for Nekobaba due to the discussion on the talk page of Nekobaba, as the evidence i brought forth there implies he could be anywhere as strong as A+. I placed Post-power transfer Genkai at at the C/B borderline as it was shown she was stronger than 45% Toguro, who had half of his arm destroyed by a blast of Genkai's rei-ki and admitted 45% wasn't enough to win. I did the same for Kuwabara (with Trial Sword) due to him being able to cut Elder Toguro to pieces and even crush him into the ground. If anything, he should be placed at least at B-*. I placed many of the middle A Classes at A* as it's implied they could definately be A+. I put Enma down from A+* to A* as Sensui stated that most A Classes were on par with gods of different religions. Nothing other than him being the ruler of Spirit World implies him to near S Class, especially given that S Class labels anything the Reikai can't defeat. His youkai gun was inferior, because Yusuke almost always put the majority of his reiki into his version, whereas Rando held back, because it wasn't necessary for him to go all out. Other than that, he was kicking Yusuke's ass. And he was never a D anyway; not unless he was in that human form. Good point with Topaz. I guess the anime wanted to hype him up a little, but the result wasn't different, at all. His ki is never shown, in the manga, so we can't say it's not true, but, then again, he never got to fight, in the manga. Bakken was a D rank, so Gama would fit Toya's standard, either way. I agree, though, since he had the power to beat Kurama, if he played smarter; and he realized that. Genkai makes sense. She was already at max upper C class, though. Even if that was implied, I'd need some examples to see. The A class demons were very different, and you can't group them under one large assumption. Max A means almost upper A, so it's more important than just assuming they deserve the boost. You'd have to explain each rise you gave. You can find them in the history. So you're saying he's weaker than some of the SDF? His own troops? That doesn't make sense to me. And I got that rank from Narutoforums. Trust me: They know their YYH. Also, he beat Mekai Yakumo, which automatically puts him a spot higher. You didn't explain Kaname Hagiri; Hiei, Wolborg, Blaze and I decided to keep him from being upper A class, unless we were using composite feats...which we can't, sadly... :L We said his motorcycle gave him the agility to be that high, since his aim wasn't affected. We never used the DB for him, though, so I added that. His projectiles could still be deflected, or destroyed, so, with that, he's still only a modest B class. Kuwabara should be nearly B class? But he couldn't beat Toguro; Toguro played around the whole time. And Toguro let himself be attacked anyway, just so he could cheat. Elder Toguro isn't that high. Why should Kuwabara be? Also, your unhelralded edits messed up the organization of the list. I reversed them, but if you prove me wrong, you can always change it. Please ''confer with me first, though, unlike the other times. I've fixed it, and included your changes that I agreed with, but still. @^@ 23:58, January 12, 2012 (UTC) Or so I thought....mother of ####. >.> Dw, I'll fix the spacing issues tomorrow, or by Monday. The edits you made to it were fine, but there are still a few points i disagree with. Of course Hagiri can't be upper A, or even in the A Class. Yusuke did say he underestimated him so to me, that says he'd have to at least be a B- or an average B at the most. Elder Toguro is definately higher than B- though. Toguro stated the only people he needed to use his 80% against prior to his battle to the death with Genkai were Karasu, Bui, Genkai and his brother. This seems to imply that Elder Toguro is at least on par with 80% younger Toguro. Also, i noticed you took away the A* from Zakuro and Toboso, yet placed Nekobaba as being A/A*. Considering Kurama's statement about all the tournament competitors being powerful and the fact that we saw more of Zakuro than we did Nekobaba, he and Toboso should also be placed at A* or have Nekobaba simply placed at A. A class? Nobody mentioned that. Yusuke did underestimate him, but he was in a lapse, at the time, so he wasn't fighting with his full strength. At that time, he couldn't even chase down Doctor. Are you willing to compare Hagiri to Karasu? He's lucky to be that far. The percentages are too inconsistent to compare. Do you have scans of this? And recall that a base Toguro kicked the older brother off the island. We saw more of Neko than Zakuro. Zakuro wasn't in the anime; or ever seen fighting. Neko had both. But I'll add the max to the other two, since you have a point that it's possible. Yes, there is a scan of Toguro stating this http://www.mangareader.net/272-19084-6/yu-yu-hakusho/chapter-90.html Toguro states that his Brother, Karasu, Bui and Genkai were the only people able to survive fighting him at 80%, showing Elder Toguro would be on par wit 80% Toguro, unmasked Karasu and Bui (without armour). Him being defeated by base Toguro simply shows Kuwabara did a lot of damage when crushing him. I'd like to stop this discussion now, as this section of the talk page has become far too long for my liking. If you wish to keep discussing this, we'll create a section on the talk page for the tier list. List Edits What makes you think Nekotama was S-class, when he had one generic feat, and there were only around 20 in existence because of their rarity?And Kuwabara is a S--class human, in the manga. 20:40, January 3, 2013 (UTC)ctype I already explained on the Nekotama talk page why anime-wise, he would most certainly be an S Class. Koenma stated that Yusuke had gotten a lot stronger than before during the Makai Tournament preliminaries, yet when Nekotama revealed his full Youki Koenma stated something along the lines of "I heard about there being strong demons other than Mukuro and Yomi, who weren't directly trying to seize power, hiding within the Demon Realm. It seems that Yusuke might not have an easy time." Basically, Koenma stated that a Yusuke far stronger than the one who fought Sensui would have trouble with Nekotama, so anime-wise, Nekotama would obviously be far stronger than Sensui. Manga-wise however, he probably isn't near that level. As for Kuwabara, him being an S Class was never stated, and only vaguely implied by his mastery of the Jigen To and viewing the last mission involving Otake in a casual manner in one panel. I don't care to back up my Kuwabara claim, but for the former, you should know that feats and only feats are always taken over words in listings. The only exception being the author's direct acknowledgement. Not only could Koenma have been speaking of the general competition, when Nekotama's attacks were shown, they were nothing that a cutout C-class demon could do, Koenma-speak or no. And that implies that there were these many S-classes, period: that's untrue and there were many demons who weren't S-class or even A-class in the tournament, since they all wanted any kind of shot at winning the thing. If an obstensibly (and I use that word lightly) S-class demon can't display B-class feats or C-class aura, he's not S-class unless he's restraining himself. 05:13, January 15, 2013 (UTC)ctype So basically you have little to no proof for the Kuwabara claim? And no, Koenma wasn't speaking of the competition, he was directly referring to Nekotama. It is also shown that S-Classes aren't as rare as they're cut out to be too, with Yoko Kurama even stating that from the Makai's perspective, the Reikai definition of the S Class could be considered insulting.http://www.mangareader.net/272-19146-16/yu-yu-hakusho/chapter-152.html Furthermore, there's such a thing as an uncontradicted statement. Yusuke one-shotting Nekotama shows that he was far stronger than Koenma believed not that Nekotama was far weaker than Koenma believed, which makes little to no sense when Koenma clearly sensed his Youki. In short, the only reason to disregard that statement is if it were contradicted, which it clearly isn't. By your logic, Shachi and Kirin wouldn't shouldn't be that strong due to a lack of feats, despite their stated power levels clearly showing otherwise. Idr. It's been a while (months) without watching the show or reading the manga, so yes. I don't particularly like Kuwabara, but I thought there was some strength he gained from beating Sensui. And I'm not going to bother trying to find sources to contradict you, for a character I don't like. He's one of the few characters in the manga I know little about. But comparing Nekotama to an S-class isn't funny. It's just bunk. There's nothing more "insulting" than comparing Nekotama to an S-class. I don't know what your definition of insulting is, but it isn't having good standards. Even though the image isn't showing on my computer, I do know two things for sure: 1 - Kurama, and surely Yoko Kurama, wouldn't compare himself to Nekotama. Even though Yoko I wouldn't even consider S-class, anyway. He did nothing to improve upon his A-class power, and was never S-class beforehand. If saying there's a rare breed of demon with so few in existence that many other demons in the Makai would probably never live to see them, and with power an A-class could only dream of reaching is "insulting" ... either this mock-Yoko is very, very spoiled (and hypocritical), or he doesn't exist. 2 - Feats. Oh, wait, I went over that. ...2.5: If the character isn't shown or stated to be S-class ''and ''has zero-feats to prove it, he's not S-class, and you're only guessing. I know Neko sucked so hard that he didn't get but one panel in the manga. But that doesn't make him S-class. An S-class would then at least put up some sort of fight, considering Yusuke was only mid-S. And if you are against going to the embarrassing anime feats, you have no evidence at all, other than a conjectural statement (from a man you yourself used in an argument to show ignorance - &Yoko Kurama & Koenma^). Sorry, but that's not how ratings work. If a character has feats and shows them, they can be classed. But even if they aren't successful, they're something. He has ''nothing. ''I know we argued about Sasuga, sometime ago. Even she passed the prelims, so that leaves options. But he didn't make it that far. And by the manga, we don't even know how long he lasted. So keep Kazuma where he is. A-class doesn't even seem bad to me, now that I think about it. I'm not dwelling on that part of the topic, from weeks ago. Unless you can come up with some concrete showings of Nekotama's strength, though, he must go back...to wherever he was. It sure as hell wasn't S-class. He didn't make it past the prelims, which were open to every demon of every class, and he has no feats and no viable character support. He's practically a filler character, with ''filler-''filler-generic powers, that exists only to show the reader how the tournament is progressing. We all knew Yusuke would've kicked his ass anyway. But he wasn't he worth showing that. *Not* S-class material. 03:48, January 24, 2013 (UTC)